Meeting Minutes


THE MINUTES OF THE

PUBLIC HEARING OF THE

PLANNING COMMISSION OF

GARDEN CITY, UTAH

 

The Garden City Planning Commission held a Public Hearing on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 at the Garden City Office Building located at the Garden City Council Chambers, located north of 305 W. Logan Road, along Paradise Parkway.  Commission Chair Huefner opened the meeting at 6:30 p.m.

 

Commission Members Present:

 

Jennifer Huefner, Chair

Greg Bills

 

Excused:  Frank Smith

 

Others Present:

 

Sharlene Millard                                         Journn Akre

Anita Weston                                             Gabriel Lleras

Phil Gertge                                                 David Jensen

           Byron Case                                                Kelly Harmon

Troy Lowe                                                Paul Davis

Milt Erickson

Jean Erickson

 

RASPBERRY RIDGE, Phil Gertge

 

Milt Erickson, an adjacent property owner, said he does not want the road of this project next to his property.  He is opposed to it.  Mr. Gertge said he is also opposed.  He hopes he doesn=t have to use it.

 

Byron Case, an adjacent property owner, asked about the proposed lift station for the sanitary sewer.  Commission Chair Huefner said she understands that it will have to be installed before this project happens.  Mr. Gertge said he was told that it would be done by next spring.  Commission Chair Huefner said this is a necessary improvement to the development.

 

Mr. Case wondered about the storm water.  He doesn=t want all the water in his yard. He=s already talked with Mr. Gertge about it.  He also wondered about the culinary water.  It=s currently at 110 psi, he wondered about the houses behind Larry Hodges that has 7 psi and what type of pressure the top of Raspberry Ridge will have. Commission Chair Huefner said Shundahai and Raspberry Ridge are working together with the tank that Shundahai just built. So there will be additional water for this project and will be available to the top of Raspberry Ridge.

 

-Page 1-


Mr. Gertge said the way the line currently comes down will boost the pressure along the bottom to 110 psi.  That=s not enough to get pressure to the top of his development, so they=ll have to get water from a higher area, like Hodges Canyon.  The pressure below the canal won=t be affected.

 

Mr. Case asked about the secondary water.  Mr. Gertge said the entire project will be using secondary water for lawns.  They will pump the water if they=re above the canal.  They still need to work it out with the canal company.

 

Mr. Case asked about the parking on the south side of his project.  Being a boat owner himself, he wouldn=t want to park his boat a mile away with the skis, vest, etc. inside the boat and then go up the hill to the house.  Mr. Gertge said each unit has a 2-car garage, a driveway that will hold an additional 2-3 cars.  He doesn=t want the boats taken to the top because it=s so steep.  There will be extra parking throughout the area. He feels that was their best option with safety, etc.  There is no other boat/rv parking planned in the subdivision.

 

Mr. Case asked about the statement in Raspberry Ridge=s Impact Statement about his project being a gathering spot for Garden City residents.  Mr. Gertge said the only thing he understands it to mean is that it would create an area on the south where people can go to take care of their needs, instead of everyone going downtown to get everything.  They=re hoping that building 350 condo=s, they don=t all have to come to the middle of town to eat, etc.  They=re hoping to spread it out a little.

 

Mr. Gertge said there are four access points for this project; Highway 30, two on Pickleville Parkway, and one on top, near Lighthouse Pointe.

 

Jean Erickson asked if there is a possibility of a gas station within the subdivision.  Commission Chair Huefner said it could be between Paradise Parkway and Highway 30, but not on the mountainside.  The only thing planned on the mountainside is residential.

 

Mr. Gertge said they won=t be building until spring, maybe even the fall of next year.

 

Commission Chair Huefner closed the Public Hearing at 6:50 p.m.

 

APPROVED:                                             ATTEST:

 

 

 

________________________________      ______________________________

Jennifer Huefner, Chair                               Assistant Clerk

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Page 2-


THE MINUTES OF THE

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF

GARDEN CITY, UTAH

 

 

 

The Garden City Planning Commission held their regularly scheduled meeting on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 at the Garden City Council Chambers, located north of 305 W. Logan Road, along Paradise Parkway.  Commission Chair Huefner opened the meeting at 7:00 p.m.

 

Commission Members Present:

 

Jennifer Huefner, Chair

Greg Bills

Lance Bourne

DJ Ballingham

Scott Gough

Pat Argyle

Excused:  Frank Smith

 

Others Present:

 

Sharlene Millard                                         Journn Akre

Anita Weston                                             Gabriel Lleras

Phil Gertge                                                 David Jensen

           Byron Case                                                Kelly Harmon

Troy Lowe                                                Paul Davis

Milt Erickson                                             Don Webb

Jean Erickson                                             Mark Daines

Dan Kurek

 

MINUTES

 

The minutes of the Public Hearing of September 3, 2008 were presented.  Commission Member Bills made the motion to approve the minutes as written for the Planning Commission Public Hearing meeting on Wednesday, September 3, 2008, at the Garden City Office Building.  Commission Member Ballingham seconded the motion.  All in favor and the motion carried.

 

The minutes of the regular meeting of September 3, 2008 were presented.  Commission Member Ballingham made the motion that we accept the minutes of the Planning Commission meeting of the Town of Garden City on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 as currently presented.  Commission Member Bills seconded the motion.  All in favor and the motion carried.

 

 

 

-Page 1-


CONFLICT OF INTEREST

 

No conflicts were stated.

 

BEAR HOLLOW APARTMENTS

 

This item has been withdrawn.

 

LAZY D SUBDIVISION, David Jensen

 

David Jensen said he, along with Gabe Lleras, are here representing Mr. Dell Loy Hansen.  Commission Chair Huefner said she has studied this extensively, and has no questions.  She=s glad that they took the time to clean up the subdivision.   Mr. Jensen said everything has been signed and is on board with it.  It will be better in the long run.

 

Commission Member Ballingham made the motion that we recommend to the Town Council that this subdivision be vacated as presented.  Commission Member Bourne seconded the motion.  All in favor and the motion carried.                  

 

Carol Griffin said she wants it on the record that there are fences on the David Jones= property that doesn=t conform with the property lines.

 

NEW MAINTENANCE BUILDING, Kris Bown

 

Harbor Village is adding a maintenance building.  They have drawn the building on an older version of the site plan.  They=ll keep the setbacks and make sure they have the first of two buildings separation and may have to close off the windows for fire ratings.  The buildings is 25' x 23'.

 

Commission Member Bourne wondered if this is going to be on the parking area or the grass.  Ms. Bown said the grassy area.  They won=t be eliminating any existing parking.  Commission Member Bourne said it won=t follow any existing Architectural Standards.

 

Ms. Bown said it will be matching with existing stone and siding.  The maintenance building door will face north.

 

The Planning Commission said it looks good especially if no parking is taken away.

 

RASPBERRY RIDGE, PHASE I, Phil Gertge

 

Commission Chair Huefner said her concern is with the water.  Mr. Gertge said he=s working with Shundahai to purchase part of their water tank, enough to supply them with their fire needs.  The way the pressure works, they won=t have to worry about it until Phase II.  Right now the pressure below the canal will be fine.

 

-Page 2-


They are working in conjunction with the Town Council to contribute with wells that they currently have planned. 

 

Commission Chair Huefner referred to the Impact Statement and wondered if his engineer is working with Dave Stringham.  Mr. Gertge said yes.  She wondered if all of their issues from the engineer letter has been taken care of.  Mr. Gertge said yes.

 

Commission Chair Huefner said Mr. Gertge has already addressed the existing water line for Phase I, what about Phase II?  Mr. Gertge said once the Shundahai tank is online, it will take the current tank offline.  The only time that tank is used is when the water pressure drops to a certain point, but with the tank online, it should never get that low.

 

Commission Chair Huefner asked if they have worked up proposed by-laws for the association?  Mr. Gertge said they are still working on them.  He=ll get them to us as soon as possible. Commission Chair Huefner said they need the proposed bylaws for the final. If they want to re-do them, they can be finalized for recording.  Also a plan to maintain the open space. 

 

Commission Member Ballingham asked about EMS and dumpster access.  They felt the sanitation would be inaccessible. He went over the map and showed concerns that the county had.  They=re concerned of the potential traffic and vehicles blocking the access.

 

Mr. Gertge said he=s met with the fire dept. and have met their standards.  He doesn=t understand why the dumpsters wouldn=t be accessible.  They=re not put behind buildings and anyone can park a vehicle in front of one anywhere.  Commission Member Ballingham suggested getting in contact with the sanitation dept. to find a place to put them.

 

Commission Member Ballingham wondered what roads he=s understanding to have the town put in.  Mr. Gertge understands he=ll be putting in all the roads.

 

Mr. Gertge said he has talked with the engineers and the comments from UDOT are that eventually, depending on the development of Pickleville Parkway and the future impact, there may be a need for turning lanes on Highway 30, but for Phase I of Raspberry Ridge, and most of Phase II, there will be no changes needed.  He=s trying to avoid putting in the road next to Milt Erickson.  But it=s on the plat in case he needs a second access.  He anticipates working with adjacent property owners and          never having to put that road in.

 

Commission Member Ballingham made the motion that we recommend approval of Phase I of Raspberry Ridge PUD as presented with the following provisions; 1) The documents of ownership are provided to the city council when available, 2)  That the waste management division of the county is contacted by those representing Raspberry Ridge and that a discussion takes place in regard to placement of dumpsters and some type of resolution as occurs essentially, 3)  The proposed bylaws and condominium declarations be submitted to the city office and they include a plan to ensure the continued actual maintenance of open space within this subdivision and project.  Commission Member Gough seconded the motion.  All in favor and the motion carried.

-Page 3-


Fire Chief, Dan Kurek, said Units #11 and #12 will need to be sprinkled because of the depth of the road.  It=s indicated on the map.  On cul de sacs, they need to be coming in at 96' diameter.

Everything in Phase I is okay for diameter right now.

 

Commission Member Ballingham said we need to address the fire code and have it on the Town Council agenda.  He recommends that they would amend our current ordinance, so it=s consistent.  The diameter is currently at 80' and needs to go to 96'.  At least bring it to the attention of the Town Council.

 

PICKLEVILLE COMMONS, Don Webb

 

Mark Daines of Crawford Construction was also here.

 

Commission Chair Huefner said the engineer=s biggest concern is with the water.  She wondered about water shares for storage.  Mr. Webb said he=s been trying to get a hold of the engineer.  They=re just waiting for a response.  They don=t know where to start until he tells them. 

 

Commission Chair Huefner said the storm drainage is shown on the plat as the back of the lot.

Dan Kurek, the Fire Chief, showed where the fire hydrants could be placed.   If there=s a car blocking, they can move it easier than moving the fire hydrant.  Mr. Daines said they would re-design it.  Commission Member Bourne asked about the parking.  They=re still short.  He said even with the garages, they=re short.  He said you need 2 parking stalls for each building, for every 600 sq. ft., you need one more parking stall and for every additional 800 sq. ft., you need another. 

 

Mr. Daines said 12 of the buildings are two-story and they each have a 10.5' x 20' garage.  Commission Member Bourne said we need elevations on these buildings.  He also talked about RV parking; when people come to Bear Lake, they bring toys, we don=t have an ordinance about RV parking, we can=t make you do it, but, people will come in there and there won=t be room to turn around.  It=s a good idea for safety reasons.  There=s no parking for boats, RV=s, etc. It was on a previous plan.   Mr. Daines said he thinks you can get a boat and truck where you can get a fire truck.  He wondered if they are thinking it=s all going to be nightly rentals?  Commission Member Bourne said that=s not spelled out either.

 

Mr. Webb said he=s just trying to make an affordable project.  He didn=t leave out parking on purpose.  He doesn=t know which units will be nightly rentals and which won=t.  There are wetlands on the west side so parking can=t go there. 

 

Commission Member Bourne said in July, there were 45 parking stalls.  Mr. Webb wondered about getting rid of units 7 and 8 or cut down units 7 through 14 into small units also.  That would meet the parking requirement and give them more space.

 

Commission Member Gough said he meets the parking requirements  if it=s sold as low income housing, but if there=s any short term rentals, it won=t work. They need a lot of parking.

 

-Page 4-


Commission Member Bills said the CC&R=s could be stipulated which units will and won=t be used for short-term rental.  He said it=s a good project, but if it=s going to be sold to an investor, on the pretense that they can rent them out, they wouldn=t be able to get licensed.

 

Commission Member Argyle said if it=s in their CC&R=s, there could be a deed restriction.

 

Commission Member Ballingham would also like to see in their CC&R=s, limitations on recreational vehicles, whether they can be ridden or if they can be stored.  He doesn=t think there=s room to store them.  Mr. Webb said his project isn=t viable to be able to do that. 

 

Commission Member Ballingham said he doesn=t think someone can live in a 500 sq. ft. condo. 

Mr. Webb said he=s tried to bring it in as a mixed use and now it doesn=t look like anyone thinks it will work now.

 

Commission Member Gough said you=re trying to put 20 houses on 2 acres.  If you could use the whole two acres, you might be able to make it work.

 

Mr. Webb wondered what his options are.  Commission Member Ballingham said you need to truly decide what the use will be.  If you want it to be affordable housing, it=s good as it is.  If it=s a mixed use, you need to determine how much of a mixed use it=s going to be.  How many are you going to allow weekly and nightly rentals in.  That will give you the ability to truly decide how much parking you will need.  That needs to be well documented and presented to us and the Town Council.  After you decide what your use is, then that will give us a finite number as to how many parking stalls you can have and what other provisions need to be put in place.  With that in mind, if you know how you want to sell this, and determine the parking, then you can determine if this will be a viable project or not, from a financial standpoint.

 

There was discussion about how to get more parking. 

 

Commission Member Bills said the project as it=s laid out, and sold on the pretense that someone buys it for themselves, you=ll be fine the way it is.  But they need to know up-front that it can=t be rented.  But we all know that someone will buy it and then bring a family of 7-8 kids along.  That=s where the problems come, because they=ll want to start bringing toys, etc.

 

Mr. Webb said they were hoping that these units would be small enough that people would realize they couldn=t bring large families to put in them.

 

The Planning Commission is not against this project if they can come up with a designated mixed-use area, show where their parking will be with extra space for boats, RV=s, etc. and match any parking requirements for those units to be used as short-term rentals.   

 

Mr. Webb said they would like to be able to sell these units for less then $200,000.00. 

 

Mr. Webb stated he=ll need 40 parking stalls and boat parking for 20 units, or approximately 36 stalls if they got rid of 2 more units, plus parking for boats and RV=s. He wondered about

-Page 5-


re-designing them for covered parking.

 

Commission Member Bourne said they need elevation drawings for the buildings.  Mr. Daines gave him a plan to show an idea of what they will look like.

 

Commission Member Gough said if these are used as rentals, you=ll need more dumpsters.

 

Commission Chair Huefner said right now, their project is called a PRUD, but there=s a 5-acre minimum.  Mr. Webb said it=s a stand alone condominium development.  She said to put that it=s a PRUD on the application.  They need to go through the subdivision process.

 

Commission Chair Huefner told Mr. Webb to re-design his plan and make sure it fits.  It will be much easier for the Planning Commission to help him out.

 

Commission Member Bourne said the short-term rental ordinance is much more stringent than the rental ordinance, so look at both of them.  Commission Chair Huefner referred Mr. Webb to Ordinances #11E-100, #11E-524 and parking is #11C-300.

 

Commission Member Argyle asked if he has ever considered using grants to help with government low-income housing.  He said he didn=t want to put on the town that it=s known as that.

 

Mr. Webb plans to re-submit new plans and come back.

 

BIG BEAR CONDO=S, Kelly Harmon

 

Commission Member Bourne said open space of 70% is required.  Mr. Harmon said he=s aware that 30% can be used for the building footprint.  Commission Member Bourne said that of the 70% open space, there should be no roads or driveways, unless it=s parking used for the clubhouse, swimming pools, etc.  He said Jason Linford, our town engineer has looked at this and figured there is 43% open space.

 

The Planning Commission tried to find the ordinance about the 70/30 open space.

 

Dan Kurek, the Fire Chief,  talked about how to get better fire protection.  If the road is over 150' they need to put in a fire hydrant or a sprinkler in the units.

 

Mr. Harmon said he=s done his research.  He said he got the ordinance after it was approved. Commission Chair Huefner said she knows the Mayor has talked with them and explained the 70/30 open space to them.  Mr. Harmon said the Mayor mentioned it, but he went off the published ordinance.

 

 

 

-Page 6-

 


It was decided that the ordinance had changed, but the section of townhomes didn=t get changed to show the 70/30.

 

Dan Kurek said if the road is longer than 150'. There needs to be a cul de sac.  One more fire hydrant will be needed on one of the streets.

 

Commission Member Bourne said the 70/30 has been in effect since he=s been here.  Commission Chair Huefner wondered if this was classified as a regular PUD or a subdivision.

 

Mr. Harmon said he originally came in as a PUD and it was changed to a Condo/Townhome.

 

The plan needs to be all drawn out, then they can do all of it at once or bring them in phases.

 

Commission Chair Huefner wondered about passing this off to the Town Council because there=s a confusion about the ordinance on the internet and what should have been on there.

 

Commission Member Argyle said if he started working on this project with a different open space figure, we should work with it and not keep changing it.  It=s not fair to the builder.

 

Commission Member Bills said if the Town Council has already made a comment to the builders about the 70/30 open space, then we have to revert back to them.

 

Their current open space is 43%.

 

The Planning Commission doesn=t feel comfortable about approving this and would like to send it to the Town Council to approve it or not.

 

Commission Member Bills made the motion to refer this matter to the Town Council and abide and accept their decision.  Commission Member Argyle seconded the motion.  All in favor and the motion carried.

 

TRAINING FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION

 

Commission Chair Huefner said she would like to see our Planning Commission run more efficiently.  Our applicants need to be more prepared.  We are a Planning Commission, not their  assistants.  They need to read our ordinance and find out what will work, it=s not for us to do.  We are volunteers for the town, not for them.  She wondered if we need to have another policy.  Actually, she would really like to have a city planner go over the applications and make sure they don=t come to the Planning meeting until their prepared.  It=s her dream.

 

Commission Member Bourne said their application needs to say that whatever is presented is what the Planning Commission is reviewing and it should be a simple yes or no.  It=s not negotiable.  You can=t come in and change your mind.

 

 

-Page 7-


Commission Member Argyle said maybe we should attach a letter that specified that with the application.  Let them know they need to be prepared.  There won=t be any negotiations.

 

She said we could have about 4-5 different letters for every application.  We also might be able to ask if they=re applying for a Short Term Rental, do they meet the requirements for parking?

 

Commission Member Bills said there are two different kinds of developers, the ones who use professional engineers and skilled draftsmen and those whoa re trying to re-invent the wheel.  We don=t want to tell them that because they=re not professionals, we don=t want to listen to them, but yet, they=re the ones we take more time with.

 

Commission Chair Huefner said we need to make sure the ordinance is written right so it doesn=t come back to bite us, like it did tonight.

 

Commission Member Bourne said one thing we struggle with is knowing what a PUD is.  They need to identify what it is they=re coming in for.  If they keep changing their minds, how are we supposed to know how to approve it.

 

Commission Member Argyle said it=s hard for them to know what to do.  They=re trying to put it together and make a profit, but it doesn=t always work out.  But it sure seems to be the parking that=s the major issue.

 

MISCELLANEOUS

Ordinance Research

Commission Member Gough said he=s done some research about Golf Course=s by calling a few different areas.  He talked with the City of Ketchum who said they got nailed once because they didn=t have the Golf Course put in first.  From now on, the Golf Course goes in first.  They require bonding for utilities, but not for the Golf Course, but the condition is that it goes in first before anything.

 

Jackson Hole has a buyer beware type of situation.  But they have a monitoring program where so much building is allowed before a part of the Golf Course goes in.

 

Summit County is similar.  They let you develop so many acres and then the Golf Course has to come in.  Only after the Golf Course is ready will they let you build more.  They also require a performance bond through their lender and they have two years to have it done.

 

The Canyon Resort had a Golf Course that was supposed to be done by 2002, and they=re just barely starting, but it=s because people are starting to complain about it.

 

Sun Valley has a bond for public improvements, but not for private, so they basically have a surety agreement that they agree to do the Golf Course and then the city will allow them to build.

 

 

 

-Page 8-


They don=t have any recourse because they=ve never been stung.

 

He called another town who also got burned and they have a condition that the golf course has to go in first.

 

Commission Member Argyle is concerned that we=re seeing advertising for another development from the developer and they=re not even meeting the obligations for the first part of it.  The developers need to finish what=s started.  A golf course isn=t different.  People are buying those lots because they=re promised certain things.

 

Commission Member Gough said these towns do the same things for swimming pools, tennis courts, putting green, clubhouse, etc.  If you=re saying something is coming in, that=s what has to go in before any lots.

 

Commission Member Gough wondered how they want to proceed.  He thinks it=s in our best interest to think about this.  Not just for golf courses, but for all amenities.

 

Commission Member Bourne suggested letting them put in Phase I or a maximum of 25% of the development and then the amenities need to go in, which the Planning Commission liked.

 

Commission Member Gough said he will draw something up and see what they think about it.  Commission Chair Huefner thanked him for doing this research.

 

Commission Member Bills said Providence has passed an ordinance for ATV=s on public roads.  Commission Chair Huefner said as of today, the state is allowing ATV=s on public roads.  He said they came up with a good ordinance which includes snowmobiles, etc.  He thinks we should look at our ordinance.

 

Approval Form

Commission Chair Huefner said the form looks good, just put on who made the motions and who seconded it.

 

Dale Brower Conditional Use

Dale Brower came in a year ago for a Conditional Use.  Nothing has been done so far, but he is applying for a Building Permit.  Does the Planning Commission feel that getting a Building Permit is Asubstantial work done@ or would they prefer him to start over.  His year is up October 11, 2008 and the Building Inspector is out of town.

 

It was decided that if he can get his Building Permit started with John Nelson on Monday, then it would be okay.

 

Bear Hollow Apartments

Commission Chair Huefner said she talked with Mr. Johnson about his project.  His Conditional Use Permit was up in April.  We don=t have the authority to extend the time limit.  The project

 

-Page 9-


was under a Conditional Use Permit, which was wrong.  When he comes in again, he=ll come in under a subdivision.  That way it will give him the flexibility to sell some of them at market rate where under a Conditional Use, he would have to follow the conditions forever.  So they=ll come in and meet with her and the Mayor and get them on the right road.

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

Commission Member Bills made the motion to adjourn the meeting at 9:35 p.m.  Commission Member Gough seconded the motion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

APPROVED:                                                                                        ATTEST:

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________     ___________________________________

Jennifer Huefner, Chair                                                    Assistant Clerk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Page 10-